This Conversation is between Sándor Lengyel, the creator of DRC and Dr Péter Váczi, anesthesiologist.
Péter: I have always been interested in this subject. I tried to find out about it from books and films. Because some time ago it occurred that I dreamt lucidly for a whole week. Then, of course, I didn’t know what was happening. My dreams fascinated me so much that I could hardly wait to sleep again and continue dreaming. Then, just as they started, they stopped just as suddenly. Since then I have missed them a lot, but sadly they didn’t continue. Instead, I had serious trouble sleeping and even now I have problems getting enough rest.
Peter: How did you get the idea to create this dream reality cinema? Where did you hear or read about it before? Have you written studies about it I could read?
Sándor: I don’t read books.
Péter: So where do you get your information from?
Sándor: I find it. My partner likes to read very much, because she is the scientific type. She’s a doctor, but she is interested in a great many other things as well. I, however, am an artistic type. I have always created what I was in need of. And I don’t put together new information in the usual ways, but, of course, I’m not the only one like that. I have made theatre productions and films, I have held 10-15 hour lectures almost on a daily basis, always on different subjects. Lectures about what I was interested in at the time or what people were asking me about. These were not mere fantasies, something always came of them. A school was founded, businesses established, stores opened, products created and expeditions organized. I still have lots of lecture notes from these, but I have only put together just one book from them, because I am more interested in dealing with the future. I leave the past, its processing and publishing, to others. I just live with them and never repeat them. I just play with thoughts and people, who are usually my students, and what I like to do is dream day and night. I have realized many of my dreams and ideas, but there is still much left to do that I haven’t had time for yet. Naturally certain details of what I invent have been published somewhere in the world in the past. These are usually the basic relationships I form. They are similar everywhere in the world, because they are unavoidable. I have never come across anything similar to my inventions, not even by accident, so you cannot read or hear about them, only from me and my students. And it is not me who writes the studies about them, my partner does that. She will send them to you if you’d like.
Péter: People are always interested in everything related to sleep, dreaming and lucid dreaming. Where did the basic idea for the DRC come from, it reminds me of science fiction films. Here, I am thinking of Inception, Matrix and Total Recall? Almost everyone has seen them and remembers them. And I could list even more of these.
Sándor: The idea for DRC itself came from the fact that I have been using dreams for a long time and I have solved a great many things with them. On the one hand, it came by itself, because my life is like that, and, on the other hand, I had the problem that I had to invent and make many, many things in a tenth of the time it would be possible to do it in. In my everyday life I was already quite familiar with the risky area of doing the impossible and meeting deadlines, when I started going to sleep telling myself that I had to dream this and that, by tomorrow. At around 3 or 4 o’clock in the morning I still hadn’t completed my day and I had to move on to the next day, I then had to allocate new tasks to my colleagues. You know the dilemma, don’t you? I was only sleeping for a few hours but would woke up every morning with the tasks completed. And if I had to submit it in writing or documents, then I went to bed at 2 o’clock and got up at 4 to have enough time to put everything down on paper. I even enjoyed it, as I was able to get an amazing amount of work done and no one bothered me so early in the morning.
Péter: Today, there are many people trying to learn this. I have heard about groups who help each other with it. There are speakers who travel around the world and teach it and write books about it. How did your knowledge about dreaming appear in your teachings to date? Did you get questions and requests about it? Do you have a student who has learnt this from you?
Sándor: Questions about the subject of dreaming only came up rarely in my seminars, but I used all of my knowledge to help my students to progress quickly and to be able to cope with the intensive courses. They were under maximum load with me with respect to their time. It happened that they slept only 3–4 hours a night for 7 days and during the rest of the day, apart from breaks for eating, they worked continuously: they attended lectures, watched films, practiced and competed or took exams, work that needed a different concept and approach to acquired knowledge. They practiced teamwork, leadership and information acquisition cooperating in a way that was very difficult and complex. I only accepted the result if they had done it in complete agreement and at the end their new knowledge was also established and concrete. I built the DRC in this way too.
Péter: How does a dream cinema program like this start? What happens to the cinemagoers, as you call them?
Sándor: The foundation of the Dream Meditation Cinema is aimed at health. Similarly to other forms of meditation, you have to repeat it regularly in able for its benefits to reveal themselves and take you somewhere. Initially the alternating harmony of the asleep-awake cycle has to be restored. We view this as a basic condition. We have obtained the most up-to-date, comfortable and enjoyable technical equipment for this. We provide a cinema experience with VIP comfort. My films build the natural changes, that until then were unable to spontaneously appear, in the brain and through this, to every point of the body. In actual fact, with the DRC, after a few hours spent in the cinema we have seen so many results to problems that could not be solved with other methods, even after years of trying. Our guests will talk about this. Among my relatives there is a young man whose mother did not recognize him after 3 weeks. Because of a problem he has been struggling with, he has been to psychological and other forms of counseling, and they have tried patiently with other alternative therapies since he was a small child. It was worth it just because of this. It’s hard to understand why we waited for a solution to these problems until now. I would ask it too if I found a perfect method for resolving an old, torturing problem. Why did it take so long, if we have known about it for ages?
Péter. What took so long? And how much time was it?
Sándor: Of course we have come up with loads of effective solutions to date, and there are still many to come that we haven’t yet had time for. But at the end of last year I decided that dreaming is the next project, or rather when I had the need for a new life in the place of the old and I realized that hey here’s a completely ready and working solution that no one else has, and its implementation were ready in my head, then I almost didn’t sleep for a month and wrote it down. I put it together and at the same time produced the 8 minute and 40 minute programs. This would have involved about a year of development and production for someone who has no experience and just has an initial small idea. And in general this is how it would happen. But once we have dreamt it and then realized it successfully many times one after the other, then it is possible to take an ultra-fast step forward. I have done this many times to date. But there are also many examples of it in history as well. Writers, directors, painters, composers, scientists, etc. They have created finished works in their heads over the course of just one night, then they wrote it down, essentially copying it from their heads, without any changes. So, this is why it is worth learning for everyone. It is hugely effective and the best, really innovative ideas are born like this. The objective is precisely this, to give it to everyone in a really simple way. You just have to be a cinemagoer in the DRC.
Péter: How can you explain a new solution that no one has ever seen or heard about? When inventors have always starved before someone finally asks what it is all about. There is so much information and so many stimuli that we have to absorb every day, that this itself is a serious atrocity. And the innovations take even more time to get into people’s heads. I have to admit that I too have tried to realize many ideas and get them onto the market, but frequently I and many others get stuck when the prototype is produced. Other times the market processes get blocked, for which it is difficult to gather collaborators and more strength. I am patient and find out many solutions to these problems and in the meantime I train myself in many new things, but this doesn’t work forever. How do you do it?
Sándor: My partner knows my world and the world of medicine and other sciences, and she is able to connect and synthesize them. That is why she needs to read. In order to be able to present an innovation to others, you have to grasp the subject from a specialist’s point of view and for laymen too, in the usual ways, which is what Emese is good at.
I feel that with this we have started along a difficult road this time too. In general sleep is not seen as the direct or outstanding cause of unfortunate happenings, lack of success or stagnation that occurs in life. There are few specialists who know a lot about sleep research and the most recent treatment methods, and there are few places where you can go for treatment. Doctors specializing in other fields just say you are stressed or you need to rest more, but they have the same problem too. Are in the same shoes, without any solution, what else could it be? Because we know it and work at knowing it. It is completely understandable.
Péter: What is the idea or the plan? How are you going to achieve it?
Sándor: We have to explain it in a way that everyone understands so you really have to work at it. Sleeping and dreaming are of vital importance. Information for public interest that you can actually do something about it which has to be taught and passed on. And we have to tell them about what doors we can open for them, doors that they have waited for in vain. And all this has to be explained in such a way that they can remain completely independent, without any external influence. They can build their own successful path with this, without repression or being at someone’s mercy. They do not depend on doctors, medicines, money, judgment or suffer from lack of time. This is a free world that we just open in you, and then you just walk to where you want to go. All experienced dreamers know this. Of course, this is manipulated in science fiction as well, but in reality it cannot be manipulated in this way. That would mean brain damage, and there is no point in that. You can go away in your dreams and no one can catch up with you. Of course, until you wake up that is.
My partner says: “Dreams are not for sale. You can’t buy pleasant dreams for yourself. You have to work for them yourself. And they cannot be taken away from you.”
Péter: How can others become good at this? And where will they get the inspiration from to try it out and attend regularly?
Sándor: You have to learn to sleep healthily and wake up rested and refreshed. Even if find there is too little time for it. In your dreams you can have as much time as you want, in other words time it is not an obstacle. I am telling you this from experience. I have slept as little as 2 hours a night for an entire month when I was working day and night, and I felt overloaded very frequently. Still I was able to relax, go on holiday with my family every year or two because of a restful dream state. During the rest of the time I worked, that is what I had to do. For me this was not work but a lifestyle choice. I still didn’t burn out, I was healthy and able to work more seemingly still more than anyone around me. But for this you have to learn to dream lucidly and then be consciously alert during the day as well. This is the essence of my invention. As to why and how, well that will remain a secret for a long time. It would be difficult to explain, so I rather show how it’s done and pass it on.
Péter: If dreams are the gateway through which we gain access to the information we need, that interests me – things I would not have enough time for while I’m awake, if I could read it from somewhere else – that would be really amazing. I have just got stuck in a project and I would like to “go down” into my dreams to a level where I would find a solution for it. If this is what it is all about, then I’ll jump into it right away.
Sándor: Restful sleep is very important, but what I am more interested in is constructive dreaming or dreaming that brings about a result, just like a person’s independent and inexhaustible source of information and solution “method”. DRC involves both of them. To be more concrete and relatively brief, as far as I know dreaming is nothing else than a software update in the brain. Just like it is shown in the film Matrix, when you are connected by a cable to the network, then everything that you have done and knew to date is wiped clean. It’s gone forever. But what you get in return multiplies your knowledge, your perspective, you ability to act, you speed and strength.
Péter: How is this possible? How can your dream cinema work like this?
Sándor: As compared to universality, all of us can only make mistakes within the limitations of our wakeful state. How can we claim this? As long as you are asleep you can go anywhere, but once you are awake, you have to decide. When awake you decide in such a way in regards to what you can see, this does not have much to do with reality, because it is just your life, your restricted possibilities, what you have lived through until then. If then you return to your dream, there time disappears, everything becomes limitless: there is no bodily movement, no action or body, in other words, no material. You are paralyzed, so you are not disturbed. There is no gravity, friction or other obstacle for you. There is only information and this information creates programs in you. Even energy gains a new meaning, when you take huge jumps in your dream, or just the opposite, sometimes you pull yourself along, moving just centimeters. Sometimes you are strong, sometimes weak. In the world of dreams there is no objective or compulsory point of comparison. You can change anything and change it at any time. This life is very different. Therefore, in this world you get and receive the ignition key to your life, and you can soar freely. And what can this result in? What can this cause in your wakeful state? By morning you are purified on this information level, because you have freed yourself of the many impressions and abrasions, and once again you can set off in several directions. I always try several different directions first of all in my dreams: I went “to the right”, I didn’t like it, so I went “to the left”, etc. By morning I was finished with my experiments, I got up and allocated the directions where we needed to go with my company, my students and I started a new life with my family. I was able to start each and every morning with a clean slate, because I knew what my objective was, and the irrelevancies and injuries had been cleaned from it.
Péter: That is a very desirable morning. Many people wake up and continue to carry their anger and hopelessness. Waking itself can be a stress. But what you are talking about is a happy, ready-for-action morning. How can this be achieved, when things are not going well?
Sándor: Sleep readies you for dreaming, for the state that the brain has to pass into. And the pathway is nothing other than creating the circumstances as you go, so that in the end you get to where you need to go. You need ideal circumstances for this, which you cannot make while you are awake, but you can do this in your dreams, you only have to learn how. Every night you can be reborn, even many times, but this is destroyed in the morning. If, however, you are able to build in the dream-reality, you can continue building during the day too. The DRC program solves this by taking the dream-cinemagoers to the free and easy state floating at the interface of wakefulness and dreams. We keep them here for nearly an hour, and along with this we inform them about what is happening to them at the same time. They are able to think, they are awake, they all remain conscious, but in the meanwhile they remain in this dream-like state, and afterwards they continue to dream in it while awake. With this their wakeful life becomes light and easy too, and remains for an increasingly longer time. In the end they learn to recall this at any time, that is they can consciously create wakeful dreaming while awake.
Péter: What experiences have you had to date? Have there been any interesting cases?
Sándor: We are continuously monitoring the results. There has been a DRC in Budapest since April and the cinemagoers share lots of information with us. It happens that they realize immediately what troubles have disappeared without a trace as a result of the cinema but on many occasions they realize this just later on. They completely forget them, then if someone or something reminds them, then the memories start to return about all the problems they had had a few weeks previously. They get so many new impressions and go through so many changes that push the old ones out. …like in the film Matrix.
Péter: While I was in my teens, several times it happened that I was able to dream in a completely new and exciting way, but this passed. Under the blanket it was just like being in an exciting film. In other words the name Dream Reality Cinema is quite pertinent, from several points of view. Here I really am watching a film and I do it so that afterwards at home I can watch my own, renewed and uniquely produced film. And as you said, this is played out in the dream reality, if we learn to play in it?
Sándor: Yes, you can create brilliant films. All you are sorry about is that you cannot record it directly onto film. Straight from your head. When you were a teenager you could have been in a state when you were spontaneously able to dream lucidly. Because you were able to optimally develop and a lot of free capacity remained for your dreams: then lucid dreaming occurred spontaneously, your other reality. Reality, because its effect on you was the same as your reality during wakefulness. It happens to you and becomes a part of your life. If, however, you have no free capacity, then dreams merely regenerate, and afterwards the brain starts to deal with other things. If you have a limited amount of time then you don’t allow yourself to get into more special states. And this may repeat itself so many times so that some people only see such a real dream once in their life, and others not at all.
Péter: And how can stress be relived?
Sándor: Dreaming is an indicator of stress too. In a stressful life the optimum cannot be created, there is always only deficiency, so you need to put this in order first of all. In the DRC, this is helped by the Dream Meditation program. Spontaneous lucid dreams are created with this as well. The cinemagoers unconsciously start to deal with what they are interested in at night. Then later on their dreams become increasingly clear and they take control over them, in other words they start to experiment and play in their dreams.
Péter: How is the entire solution constructed? How does someone become a lucid dreamer with you?
Sándor: On the basis of my experience I have broken down the DRC program into 4 main phases and on the basis of this the individual degrees of dreaming can be achieved in 4 steps:
Step 1: Our Dream Meditation program, which creates a meditative floating state. Here we do not yet promise lucid dreaming, but several people have returned saying that they have done it and have started to control their dreams. It reduces stress and aggression. Those who had been unable to sleep are now able to sleep 8 hours a night. And those who were unable to get to sleep before midnight, now, for the first time in years go to bed early and wake up refreshed much earlier than before. Our dream meditators tell us about loads of new experiences and changes.
Step 2: This will be the Active Dreaming program, into which I am building extra programs that are specifically aimed at lucid dreaming. Both beginners and the more advanced will like it.
Step 3: The Planned Dream program, in which you study to plan precisely what you will dream about, what you need in your life, and you do it for yourself in your dream and then you take the solution into your wakeful life.
Step 4: The Lucid Dream program you can travel, build and continue you dreams in 24-hour chains of wakefulness-dreaming-wakefulness-dreaming. In other words you can dream while you are awake. I live like this also.
I have other plans related to dreaming as well, but I will probably only realize these in the years to come.
Péter: If I imagine a project, then does that take place in my dream step-by-step and then does precisely the same thing take place while I am awake as well? In precisely the same way that I planned in my dream and which was successful?
Sándor: In your dream you are much freer than that. You need to think about this in a completely different way. As you would in any branch of the arts and in any style. Because you are as free as this. You or your imagination can appear in the image of a red golf ball. And in such other ways that apparently have nothing to do with your objectives. What is important is for it to be related to your desires. So you do not need dreams in such a way so that you dream precisely in the interest of success, in the way it may take place when you are awake. It is not this that takes place, and you wouldn’t even enjoy it. Temporarily you do have such dreams and they are quite tiring. But these are still not those dreams. You need to live through the circumstances. Even according to your desires you need to freely enjoy your dreams. The solutions you obtain in your dreams have the same effect on your nervous system as while you are awake. This is sufficient for success. If in your dreams you enjoy living through your future image, as a life you have realized, then it shows you paths that you are unable to imagine let alone live through while you are awake.
Péter: But everyone wants to enjoy life. This is the common aim in which we are the same: being happy while awake and while dreaming.
Sándor: What is very important is that life is programmed for continuation and happiness. This is why you feel motivated to acquire happiness for yourself and others. Due to the finite limits of material and the frictions during the interaction of materials, there are conflicts and even wars in your life with yourself and with others too. If you have a desire in your wakeful state and you are able to take that with you into your dream, then your dream will prepare you for the solution by giving you the optimum in which you will achieve it while you are awake too.
Péter: Why can’t we do this by ourselves? Where does the fault slip into the original program?
Sándor: The one fault in life is that the majority of people prefer to desire concrete things. What they see, what they can hold in their hands, what they can embrace. In other words they are not driven to finding impalpable happiness. So they live under the stress of having to acquire it, they are unable to consciously and voluntarily step into processes where they are told that everything will be all right if they calm down finally. Calming down is necessary, but they are unable to and they no longer believe that someone or something could achieve this with them. And they do not believe that if they achieve it, this would be sufficient for getting what they are so excited about. But this shouldn’t be based on belief but on experience and, from this, knowledge. We are now aiming at this and we will achieve it, even for those who think they are incapable of such a thing.
Péter: Does this work with the technique they used in the USA once, when images were flashed during films and the people started to want to buy things?
Sándor: Not at all. This is not allowed, but I tried it out and it doesn’t work. It is not sufficient on its own. They already knew in advance what they were shown and in many places they were given confirmation that that is the fashion that is the solution for their lives. We, however, are aiming at what they could not have known about or seen till then. Most of the time their desires do not contain what would fulfill them. They misinform themselves.
Péter: So how does this work with you? Could you give me an example?
Sándor: For a long time I have been creating models and complete processes in my life, in my courses and films too. In the DRC all I do is ask the brain to pay attention to what I tell it. Not in a roundabout way or covertly, but face to face. With this I can allow people to get into a state where they reach the interface of sleep and wakefulness, but they do not pass over it and do not fall back, but stay there, while their workings are being carried out more precisely. They perform the tasks I give them while they are concentrating and awake, while in the meantime there is no need for the body. But the dream cinemagoer does not think about this, as it involves a natural process like harmonic life. They know and like this life from experience, they are glad to follow it, because it always had a good effect on them. At such a time the brain feels as if it is in heaven and rests, it becomes released, it heals and even becomes capable of development once again. Some of our guests experience this very well, so they are able to describe it in their own words. One of them said that his enthusiasm has returned, not by grabbing at it, but with peace, and he feels like he was a child again, but not in a childish manner.
Péter: Is all this completely your own intellectual product?
Sándor: Yes it is. I have been making so-called operator films for 20 years. It’s all I have been making, right from the start. This is my know-how and talent, my objective in life. If I were to make a full-length feature film once, that would be like this too. I have always placed the messages that I wanted to pass on in my films in this way. So that they can live through them as if it had happened to them, then they are able to understand and apply it just like their own life experiences. All of my students/viewers have built my messages and their effects into their lives in a unique way. And they have learned something from me that has become an important part of their lives from then on. I myself have learnt everything I know. I take it from others and pass it on. Not everyone knows that this is possible at all, but I have taught this to everyone, and through this I have taught them what I know.
Péter: I worked as an anaesthesiologist for years. And now we are sitting here, talking about a completely different form of sleep.
Sándor: I think that the knowledge you have because of your profession is very useful in sleep research, or for the mapping out of another world. One alternative of the world is a technical, cybernetic direction, in other words towards cyborgs and biorobots. See the Terminator (1984, 2015), Robocop (1987, 2014). The other is towards dream reality and dreaming. Inception (2010). Ink (2009). Matrix (1999). These films nicely depict the quantum physics world image, where both of them have a place and links are created between them. Cloud Atlas (2012), Mr. Nobody (2009), Lucy (2014).
Péter: Once medical science has got over this markedly stuck materialism, it will be able to soar. People have in themselves an entity that is over and above the material. We can call it the spirit, God, .. but it is more than a cyborg. I wonder if the cyborg will be victorious over the human …?
Sándor: This is a never-ending subject, but it would be too much to go into it now.
Péter: It is a challenge for me to get deeply involved in this subject. It interests me because of my own experiences too.
Sándor: My students and colleagues also use the DRC. And also I have done it so that I can develop and get myself in order after a difficult period. Originally it wasn’t going to be a business, my dream reality building seminars were for that. I made it for myself and my children, and also to help them when I am no longer around.
You can use it too, and what you need to do as a doctor or publisher will come together in your mind. First of all you need to deal with the basics of dreaming through the Dream Meditation program.
Péter: I am curious as to what effect it will have on me, from a specialist point of view also.
Sándor: Life is a hyper-complex system, with many subsystems and units in a great many relationships. I planned the DRC programs to be able to pass on information that everyone is able to live much deeper and with more understanding in this system, which is what Life is like!
When, for example, my friends asked me to go skiing with them, and I put on skis for the first time. On the first day they went with me on the blue run and then on the red runs. Afterwards I continued it in my dream and learnt skiing even more. And when I woke up on the second day, I was able to go with them on the black runs as well. Of course, I did not ski the way I wanted to immediately. I fell over many times, but there was much enjoyment in it too.
Péter: I have read this from the experiences of the cinemagoers:
“I remember almost all of my dreams and feel that the events in my everyday life happen like this to me. There are happenings that can be linked. There was one night when I felt as if I had dreamt from the moment I went to sleep until I woke up and afterwards I remembered almost all of my dreams, there were loads. On that day there were twice as many people in my café and I didn’t get half as tired as usual. I really enjoy coming here and I can feel the change.”
“I have been here three times and I have noticed that I have finally started to visualize things. Brain control hasn’t worked, if I read, I went to sleep, now I imagine what I am reading.”
“It was a very special feeling, I even got the shivers at the end. I really liked it. I am going to call my girlfriend to come too. She has heard about it too, everyone is posting it on Instagram.”
Péter: I am unable to get to sleep, I am always thinking about solutions. My brain has no OFF button. I need a solution for this too, it would be really good. My wife can get to sleep any time, I cannot. I would like to be able to get to sleep spontaneously. I have tried other therapy methods for this, medicines and training courses as well, but all in vain. Now this will be my first objective with the cinema. – After the cinema: Indescribable, I cannot put it into words yet, the information is flowing inwards. It was a very special experience.